Everybody Wants To Be Right: Fat Joe, Lindsay Clancy & Love

Sibling HH 09/11/26

Fat Joe, the Clancy case and living apart, all in one episode: 🎤🖤🏠

Bruce Anthony: [00:00:01] Everybody wanna be right, but most of the time it’s wrong. We gonna get into it. Let’s get it

Bruce Anthony: [00:00:19] Welcome. First of all, welcome. This is Unsolicited Perspectives. I am your host, Bruce Anthony, here to lead the conversation in important events and topics that are shaping today’s society. Join the conversation and follow us wherever you get your audio podcasts.

[00:00:33] Subscribe to our YouTube channel for our video podcasts, YouTube exclusive content, and our YouTube membership. Rate, review, like, comment, share. Share with your friends, share with your family. Hell, even share with your enemies. On today’s episode, it’s the sibling happy hour. I’m here with my sis, Jay Andrea.

[00:00:51] We’re gonna be dilly-dadding a little bit, then we’re gonna be talking about the Lindsay Clancy story and living together apart. What is it? We gonna get into it. But that’s enough of the intro. Let’s get to the show

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Bruce Anthony: [00:01:05] what up, sis?

Jay Aundrea: [00:01:14] What up, brother?

Bruce Anthony: [00:01:15] I can’t call it, I can’t call it. You know, every time

Jay Aundrea: [00:01:18] Mm-hmm

Bruce Anthony: [00:01:19] start the show and I record the opening and then that intro, by the time I get to audio podcast,

Jay Aundrea: [00:01:31] Right.

Bruce Anthony: [00:01:32] I start getting cotton mouth. And it’s a short… It lasts just a short little bit ‘cause once I’m done filming that part, I take a little swig.

[00:01:40] I always take a little swig, and then we get right back to it

Jay Aundrea: [00:01:42] You do. You take your little swig

Bruce Anthony: [00:01:44] It, and you think it’s nerves, but I’m not nervous doing this show anymore.

Jay Aundrea: [00:01:51] I, well, maybe you’re not aware of it. Like, there might be some, like, unconscious pressure you’re putting on yourself maybe. Because I know that I

Bruce Anthony: [00:02:01] day. That’s every day. That’s not unconscious. That’s,

Jay Aundrea: [00:02:09] just life. That’s just life,

Bruce Anthony: [00:02:10] that’s every day. Like, as soon as I wake up in the morning, “Ah,

Nerves, dry mouth and the anxiety toots that the body keeps: 😅😬💨

Bruce Anthony: [00:02:13] damn, why is some, why is my shoulder so tight?” It’s the pressure that I’m putting on myself is weighing down on my shoulders and my neck. Yes. No

Jay Aundrea: [00:02:20] Yes, my, ‘cause mine is caused by nerves. Every time I have to, like, sing in public, I get the worst dry mouth. It’s so bad, like, my lip sticks to my teeth. Like, it’s that bad. And I’m like, “Why can’t this happen, like, after, after I perform? Like, why does it have to happen right before I perform? Like, why can’t it be post nerves?

Bruce Anthony: [00:02:48] Hmm. I don’t, I, I

Jay Aundrea: [00:02:49] it gotta

Bruce Anthony: [00:02:50] I don’t think that’s a thing. I don’t think post-nerve… I guess if post-nerves are if you’re expecting, uh, some type of grade or reaction to whatever it is you just did, then yes, it would be post-nerves. I used to get cotton mouth before every game that I played.

Jay Aundrea: Yeah

Bruce Anthony: [00:03:08] single one. And then another thing, the cotton mouth is one thing, right? But then my legs would get super heavy

Jay Aundrea: [00:03:17] Oh.

Bruce Anthony: [00:03:19] every basketball game. I’m out there on the start— I’m out there on the, you know, we, we around the circle, jump ball about to happen. I can’t talk out my mouth, and I’m like, “Yo, my legs is not gonna move.” Every time. And I didn’t realize until later that was nerves

Jay Aundrea: [00:03:37] I get, uh, anxiety toots And that’s just the, that’s just the reality. Listen, I— My stomach don’t quite… Listen, hey, I get, I get stress toots, and I’ll be like, “Mm, oh my God. Oh, Lord.

Bruce Anthony: [00:03:56] This is disgusting.

Jay Aundrea: [00:03:58] Well, farts, farts are a natural part of life, and for anybody out there who has generalized anxiety, which means you just anxious all the time, right?

[00:04:12] Just in general. That’s how I take that. I don’t know if that’s like the clinical definition, but that’s how I take it,

Bruce Anthony: [00:04:18] Yeah,

Jay Aundrea: [00:04:19] that results in stress toots. The, the— Listen, I’m here to let you know you’re not alone

Bruce Anthony: [00:04:27] I,

When your body knows a relationship is over well before you do: 😬💔🧠

Bruce Anthony: [00:04:28] I wasn’t t- well, tubes are disgusting, but I’m about to make it even more disgusting because story time. My last serious girlfriend,

Jay Aundrea: Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:04:40] went away somewhere, and sh- unbeknownst to her, and I guess to myself

Jay Aundrea: [00:04:47] Okay

Bruce Anthony: [00:04:49] The first night that we went away, ‘cause we went away for a weekend, the first night, at the end of the night, I knew I was gonna break up with her. Something had happened. I’m not gonna get specific or explicit, but something had happened

Jay Aundrea: [00:05:06] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:05:08] and, and, and I knew. Now, it still took me, like, a month later to finally go through with it, but here’s the disgusting part.

Jay Aundrea: [00:05:15] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:05:16] I had diarrhea for the rest of the night

Jay Aundrea: [00:05:20] The night you decided to break up with her or the night you actually did?

Bruce Anthony: [00:05:24] No, the night, well, the night that my body told me that I was going to, because remember, subconsciously or consciously, I still don’t know that I’m going to break up with her.

Jay Aundrea: [00:05:34] Ah.

Bruce Anthony: [00:05:35] Subconsciously, my body knows, “Hey, yo, Bruce, you out this situation. Like, you done. Whether or not you wanna admit it to yourself, you are done.”

[00:05:45] And so my body reacted, yes

Jay Aundrea: [00:05:48] a prior show, how

[00:05:53] men don’t like to break up with women. So it’s like the stress of knowing, of coming to the realization before she does that y’all need to break up, and you gotta figure out how you gonna maintain your good guy persona while simultaneously being horrible so that she’ll break up with you

Bruce Anthony: [00:06:12] Uh, no, I stopped that in my 30s. I, like I said, it was subconscious. I knew things just weren’t right.

Jay Aundrea: [00:06:21] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:06:22] I didn’t know at that moment I had subconsciously decided I’m out

Jay Aundrea: [00:06:28] I thought you were gonna say you knew that night that you were going to break up with this person because she got

Bruce Anthony: [00:06:36] No, no, no, no. I’m not— Look, hey, look, I’m not that,

Jay Aundrea: [00:06:39] ‘Cause

Bruce Anthony: [00:06:40] that horrible of a person.

Jay Aundrea: hell with

Bruce Anthony: [00:06:42] Yeah, no, come on. No, no,

Jay Aundrea: [00:06:44] what I would’ve said in response to

Bruce Anthony: [00:06:46] I— That whole night my stomach was… I mean, I’m up the entire night running to the bathroom because I didn’t sleep. I did not sleep that night. And, and so that’s why I know if, if ever I, I don’t, I don’t have anxiety toots, but I have anxiety diarrhea.

[00:07:04] I know when my

Jay Aundrea: [00:07:05] How is my thing worse

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:07] No, I said mine was— I said I’m about to get disgusting.

Jay Aundrea: [00:07:11] Okay. Okay. ‘Cause I was about to say, you

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:14] you don’t be listening to me

Jay Aundrea: [00:07:15] no, sometimes you act like my thing is worse than your thing, and it’s not.

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:22] No, here’s your l- here’s your Leo trait. Okay?

Jay Aundrea: [00:07:28] Leo Trey

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:29] is a, it’s not everything’s about you. All right?

Jay Aundrea: [00:07:33] In this instance, it is

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:34] No. Oh, okay. Okay. Anyway, talking about toots, let’s talk about mouth toots.

Jay Aundrea: How, what?

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:43] I don’t know. I was just trying to come up with a segue, and it wasn’t good.

Jay Aundrea: you were trying

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:47] Yeah, it wasn’t

Jay Aundrea: [00:07:48] know what? I, I honestly, I appreciate the effort.

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:51] Yeah, you know, I tried, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:07:53] I tried.

Fat Joe love and is the man a cinematic storyteller or extra: 🎤📜🤔

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:54] Okay, so Fat Joe, one of my favorite rappers. Look,

Jay Aundrea: I love Fat

Bruce Anthony: [00:07:59] gon- uh, h- you not gonna hear me say a lot of negative things about Fat Joe. It’s gonna be just basically one thing. His stories be a little extra. He be putting a little extra on his stories. Uh, yeah, he be talking—

Jay Aundrea: [00:08:15] putting 20 on 10 and it’s like, okay

Bruce Anthony: [00:08:18] no, he be putting 100 on 10.

Jay Aundrea: [00:08:20] Oh, wow

Bruce Anthony: [00:08:21] be based in real fact, but it’s like everybody is, “I had 100 dudes with me.” Did you really have 100 dudes or did you have, like, 15? Like

Jay Aundrea: [00:08:31] So he’s, he’s a cinematic storyteller. That’s what I call it. So you ever know— notice like how some movies are based on a true story, but are obviously they take artistic license to make it cinematic. So I like to call those people cinematic storytellers. Can you believe everything they say? No.

[00:08:50] You should take it with a grain of salt. But listen, what’s the actual story being told? That he got into a fight and listen, this happened. Okay. Got it.

Bruce Anthony: [00:08:59] So

Fat Joe, the N-word and that Joe Budden podcast controversy: 🎧🖤🔥

Bruce Anthony: [00:09:00] Fat Joe was on the Joe Budden Podcast recently, and there’s been some controversy that’s been sparked up. This controversy has happened to Fat Joe over the last five or six years, ‘cause I don’t remember there being controversy back in the ’90s when he started to blow up. ‘Cause like Flow Joe came out in like ‘91, so that’s how long Fat Joe has been in the rap game.

[00:09:25] All right? And it’s his constant use of the N word.

Jay Aundrea: [00:09:29] Yes

Bruce Anthony: [00:09:30] And for those that don’t know who Fat Joe is, Fat Joe is a Puerto Rican rapper from the Bronx,

Jay Aundrea: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:09:36] leader of the Terror Squad. Don Cartagena is a true former gangster in the street. Like when everybody in the rap game and everybody from New York saying, “Yeah, but Fat Joe was actually a, a real one.”

[00:09:54] And there’s nobody saying like the stuff he was talking about was a lie. No. Fat Joe was for real, for real, like a close to a millionaire as a teenage kid selling crack cocaine to the community

Jay Aundrea: [00:10:07] Yes. Obese Joseph was out in these streets

Bruce Anthony: [00:10:11] Obese Joseph. You said you had some thoughts about his constant use of the N-word, and I’m, I’m curious to hear them

Jay Aundrea: [00:10:23] So I was, I was in my 2000s bag like a week ago, and of course in my rotation is some Terror Squad, okay? Uh, I, I, p- specifically “Take Me Home,” right? That’s my jam. I love Remy Ma’s verse on that. It’s a great song. So there was another song, it wasn’t that one, it was another song, and it was like just the opening of him like getting hyped up before the song even starts.

[00:10:57] You know how they do the little ad lib at the beginning? It was so many N-bombs and like, it— I cringed every single time. And so here’s the problem, and this is kind of people’s response back in the day when this was an issue, because it came up when J.Lo said it.

Bruce Anthony: [00:11:16] Right. Yes. When J.Lo said it to, uh, uh, “I’m Real,” the song “I’m Real” written by Ja Rule, performed with her and Ja Rule back in, like, 2001 or 2, something like that

Jay Aundrea: [00:11:28] Yes. And it feels like the consensus is, and I don’t agree with this at all, is that Puerto Rican plus New York equals Black, and that’s not true. Like it’s— just because you’re Puerto Rican and from New York City does not mean you can say the N-word. I don’t care. I don’t care that it’s, “Oh, this is how we talk,” blah, blah, blah.

[00:11:51] I do not give a full damn. You— Fat Joe has not lived as a Black man in America. He is, uh, he might be from the Black diaspora. I don’t know. I don’t know his, his lineage, okay? But all I know is you have not lived the life or the experiences i-in totality, right, as a Black man in America. You have lived as a person of color in America, but baby, that’s different because there’s a difference between racism and anti-Black racism.

[00:12:24] It’s two different things. I— it, it just annoys me that people are like, “Oh, well, they’re Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban from New York, so they say the N-word.” No. No. I don’t care. I don’t care if it’s part of your lexicon. I don’t care. I don’t like… Fat Joe is not a Black man, so you don’t get to say it. It really, really bothers me.

[00:12:48] It bothered me back in the day, but I love his music so much that I’ll still be listening to it. But, but it— I just realized as I was listening to it, I actually cut the song off ‘cause it bothered me that much

Bruce Anthony: [00:13:00] Hmm. Uh, that’s interesting. I have never… There are times where the N-word is said by certain people, and I cringe. Even some Black people. Some Black— If Tim Scott, if I was walking in, in, in the mall in DC, and Tim Scott walked past me and was like, “What up, N-word?” I’d be like, “Mm,

Jay Aundrea: [00:13:20] I, no, because you know it’s a hard R

Bruce Anthony: [00:13:22] Yeah, Byron Donalds, uh, Byron Donalds nothing.

Jay Aundrea: [00:13:25] Yeah. No, we Black, it’s Donald’s.

Bruce Anthony: [00:13:29] Donalds, yeah. And it’s an interesting conversation, and, and they expanded upon it in, uh, Joe Budden’s podcast. But we do, some of us in the Black community, tend to give certain people a pass. Fat Joe has always gotten a pass, but when J.Lo said it, it was an issue. And the reason is, is because J.Lo seemed like she was cosplaying,

Jay Aundrea: [00:13:58] Yeah

Bruce Anthony: [00:13:59] like she was of the culture, where Fat Joe has always been of the culture.

[00:14:04] And

White Latino vs Black Latino and who hands out the culture pass: 🖤🤷💥

Bruce Anthony: [00:14:05] there is a difference between white Latino and Black Latino, right? So,

Jay Aundrea: [00:14:13] A Rosie Perez. Okay? A Laz

Bruce Anthony: [00:14:15] can say it

Jay Aundrea: [00:14:17] Alonso.

Bruce Anthony: [00:14:19] I don’t even know who that is.

Jay Aundrea: [00:14:21] You know his face, can say it. You know what I’m saying? These are Black people

Bruce Anthony: [00:14:26] What about, uh,

Jay Aundrea: [00:14:28] Latino

Bruce Anthony: [00:14:29] yeah, what about, uh, what’s my name? John Leguizamo

Jay Aundrea: [00:14:32] No, John Leguizamo is a white man

Bruce Anthony: [00:14:36] No, he’s not. He’s Puerto Rican

Jay Aundrea: [00:14:38] That’s a— Puerto Rican is his nationality, and really it’s not even his nationality because Puerto Rico is part of the United States. But y- let’s go with that. But his racial identity, that is a white man

Bruce Anthony: [00:14:54] Who, who, okay, and so this was an interesting conversation on the Joe Budden podcast, who put that racial identity on him because he represents the c- he, he, so it’s not how they view themselves, it’s how the world views them

Jay Aundrea: [00:15:10] Yes, because race is a social construct, not a personal

Bruce Anthony: [00:15:13] But then we, then we run into a problem. Somebody like you,

Jay Aundrea: Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:15:17] who sometimes I know you’re, well, at least half of a Black woman, a quarter, something

Jay Aundrea: [00:15:22] definitely Black, so

Bruce Anthony: [00:15:26] But somebody looking at you, right?

Jay Aundrea: [00:15:29] my think I’m mixed,

Bruce Anthony: [00:15:30] M- or, or not Black at all

Jay Aundrea: [00:15:34] I don’t know that I’ve ever gotten not Black at all

Bruce Anthony: [00:15:38] you get, uh, Asian when you were in Italy?

Jay Aundrea: [00:15:41] No, no. No, they said Hawaiian.

Bruce Anthony: [00:15:46] Uh, oh, okay. All right. Well, that ain’t

Jay Aundrea: [00:15:49] I got Asian actually at the doctor’s office. But in my defense, it was during COVID. I had a mask on

Bruce Anthony: [00:15:58] Okay. Well, you got Hawaiian. Hawaiian is not Black. Polynesian

[00:16:01] aren’t Black. So there you go. Somebody, somebody could mistake you

Jay Aundrea: [00:16:05] Somebody could

Bruce Anthony: [00:16:06] being Black, and I know personally that you say that word

Jay Aundrea: [00:16:12] Yeah, I do

Bruce Anthony: [00:16:13] I say it once a day, maybe even sometimes twice a day. Okay? People that are listening to this that know me personally that don’t know that about me will probably be surprised.

[00:16:24] Like, “Really? You do?” Yes, I do. Not around you.

Jay Aundrea: [00:16:29] we don’t on this show, and I also pick on, and

Bruce Anthony: [00:16:32] no. I- although it did happen one time

Jay Aundrea: [00:16:35] Oh, because— Was it me? It slipped

Bruce Anthony: [00:16:37] Nah, it was me

Jay Aundrea: [00:16:38] Oh, okay. And I also don’t do it in, let’s say, mixed company,

Bruce Anthony: [00:16:44] That’s what I’m talking about. Yes. I

Jay Aundrea: [00:16:46] I don’t do that

Bruce Anthony: [00:16:47] I have a friend, a personal friend of mine for years, says it all the time everywhere. I’m like, “Yo, s- stop.

Jay Aundrea: [00:16:55] I, also know someone like that,

Bruce Anthony: [00:16:57] Yeah, I’m like, “Yo, stop.” Like, “What are you doing right now? Don’t, don’t be just keep doing that.” D- like, “Hey man, recognize where we at.” I don’t care.

[00:17:04] Oh, I just did that voice so you know exactly who it is.

Jay Aundrea: [00:17:08] I’m surprised you’re not saying the person I’m thinking of

Bruce Anthony: [00:17:11] Uh, that’s your friend?

Jay Aundrea: [00:17:15] No, it’s a family member

Bruce Anthony: [00:17:18] It’s a family member. I don’t even know who… We go- we gonna do that off air. We gonna

[00:17:23] do that off air ‘cause I don’t know who you’re talking about. But,

Jay Aundrea: [00:17:25] you will and then you’ll be like, “Oh, yeah!”

Bruce Anthony: [00:17:30] uh, so I’m not offended by Fat Joe saying it. Uh, but I’m not the arbiter of who can say it and who cannot say it. The fact of the matter is everybody can say it if they want to.

Jay Aundrea: [00:17:43] Yeah

Bruce Anthony: [00:17:45] for the consequences that come once you say it

Jay Aundrea: [00:17:48] I, I can see both sides of it, right? Like I can— it, ‘cause it makes me cringe when he says it because he is not a Black man. But I also get that his proximity to Blackness and his proximity to the culture and his contributions to the culture has given him some sort of ubiquitous pass, which again, who is giving this pass out?

[00:18:15] But I feel like since he’s been in the game for so long and been doing it for so long and really has not suffered any kind of real backlash for it, I feel like as a culture, we’ve accepted the fact that he says it.

Bruce Anthony: [00:18:29] Hmm.

Jay Aundrea: [00:18:31] Not that we necessarily condone it or like it even, but we’ve accepted the fact that he says it.

Bruce Anthony: [00:18:38] Yeah ’

Jay Aundrea: [00:18:40] Cause I’m still gonna listen to them jams. I, I mean, I, I, I’m a b- I’m a Fat Joe fan. Like I’m still going to listen.

[00:18:47] Um, yeah, I, I love Fat Joe and so I’m still gonna listen.

Bruce Anthony: [00:18:52] Matter of fact, I’m such a big Fat Joe fan. When Pun was out and everybody was like, “Pun is the one,” I was like, “Yeah, but, but Fat Joe.” Like,

Jay Aundrea: [00:18:59] on, but on the low, like Fat Joe though,

Bruce Anthony: [00:19:02] that’s, that was, that’s my man, Fat Joe. You can’t tell me Don Cartagena, I would listen to that al- Matter of fact, after this, while I’m doing the editing of the show, I’ma just let it ride, ‘cause it’s one of my favorite albums of all time, period

Jay Aundrea: [00:19:15] yeah. What did they, did they talk about it on the Joe Budden

[00:19:19] podcast?

Bruce Anthony: [00:19:21] love the Joe Budden… I, no, no, no, no. They did. I love the Joe Budden Podcast, but it’s five different voices speaking all at one time. There is no consensus. It’s five different personalities. They were just all given their… They, very much like this, just expand. If it was me and you, and then a duplicate version of me and you,

Jay Aundrea: [00:19:39] Oh, what a nightmare. Yeah

Bruce Anthony: [00:19:41] no, I think that would be fantastic, actually. I would love to be in my own company. It’d be funny. It’d be laughs

Jay Aundrea: [00:19:47] F- four people with ADHD trying to have a conversation? I don’t

Bruce Anthony: [00:19:51] conversations are the best. We have them all the time. That’s what the whole

Jay Aundrea: [00:19:54] Doing it right now.

Bruce Anthony: [00:19:56] Yeah so I don’t

Jay Aundrea: [00:19:57] I was interested in Joe’s take though

Bruce Anthony: [00:20:01] And Joe was just, Joe was pretty much like Ma Tate. It was, it was like, yo, I, I don’t think anything of it. He’s not one of those people that I think anything of it. If Ricky Martin and Jennifer Lopez, both Puerto Rican. Both to me white Puerto

[00:20:14] Rican. Even though Fat Joe’s more white than he is Black. Not, and I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know

Jay Aundrea: [00:20:25] I- if you, if you look at that brother that, I call him brother ‘cause it’s, he’s Fat Joe,

Bruce Anthony: [00:20:29] Yeah. Uh, uh, you are, you and him are, you are lighter skinned than Fat Joe is, so let’s just point that out there. And he also

Jay Aundrea: [00:20:36] we’re the same color. Honestly, Joe

Bruce Anthony: [00:20:38] it’s close, but no,

[00:20:39] it ain’t.

Jay Aundrea: I could

[00:20:42] be siblings more than you and— Like, Joe and I look more like siblings than you

Bruce Anthony: [00:20:49] Yes. That’s the whole point I was trying to make.

Jay Aundrea: [00:20:53] and Happy do. Yeah, I, I see that. But also, I— he’s not a Black man. He just has a, he just has a proximity to the culture, and he has contributed

Bruce Anthony: [00:21:04] Yeah.

[00:21:05] A great deal. A great deal

Jay Aundrea: [00:21:08] Whereas if you, you know, not that— I hate throwing Ricky Martin’s name out there because he’s never said it, but like— Well, I don’t know what his personal life is like.

I’m not gonna

Bruce Anthony: [00:21:17] But J.Lo, you can say

Jay Aundrea: [00:21:18] But like J.Lo okay, she was a fly girl for a few years, sure. I don’t think her and Rosie even really got along like that. But she doesn’t— And then aside from her dating Diddy for a little bit in there

Bruce Anthony: [00:21:33] She was Made in Manhattan. That’s what

Jay Aundrea: [00:21:35] cup- yeah. Like it’s, it’s— she’s not, she never— She rarely even plays Latina.

Bruce Anthony: So

Jay Aundrea: [00:21:43] It— ‘Cause Made in America, she was Italian

Bruce Anthony: [00:21:47] I, uh, you know what? I’m— I, I don’t wanna detour ‘cause I wanna end this segment ‘cause it’s starting to run long. However,

Jay Aundrea: [00:21:53] America.

Bruce Anthony: [00:21:55] yeah, it was made in Manhattan.

[00:21:56] Uh, but to me,

The Rock never plays a Black man and there is no real consensus: 🎬🤔💯

Bruce Anthony: [00:22:01] she has the same issue that I have with The Rock. Rock don’t ever— The Rock, Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson never plays a Black man,

Jay Aundrea: [00:22:08] Yes. And I don’t think he’s ever had a Black love interest. Y’all can correct me if I’m

Bruce Anthony: [00:22:14] There was a movie called Rampage,

Jay Aundrea: [00:22:16] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:22:17] uh, where there was a Black love interest, but he wa- it was flirtatious. It was not anything physical.

Jay Aundrea: [00:22:24] Just

[00:22:25] like, uh, what was it? How

Bruce Anthony: [00:22:26] Hol- he did come out and, yeah, why did I

Jay Aundrea: [00:22:30] He f- he flirted. First of all, it’s Janet Jackson.

[00:22:34] Nobody’s passing, nobody’s passing up Janet No one’s passing that escapade, okay? They’re gonna take it every time. So but even then, I don’t think they ever had, like, any physical contact. I don’t even think they shook hands.

[00:22:50] Like, so yeah. I think it’s written into his contract that he doesn’t

[00:22:55] have to touch bl- any Black person but Kevin Hart.

Bruce Anthony: [00:22:59] Uh, so ladies and gentlemen out there, we, uh… That’s crazy what you just said. Ladies and gentlemen, uh, there is no consensus to this. This is one… And you’ll find that the majority of this show today, there is no consensus. There is no right or wrong answer.

[00:23:16] It’s just how people feel. And how I feel about Fat Joe is complete indifference, but that was interesting that you had, being a huge Fat Joe fan like me, how you had an opposite reaction, and that’s, that’s life

​

Bruce Anthony: [00:23:31] so Jay, let’s talk about it. Lindsay Clancy. On July— On January 24th, 2023, in Massachusetts, Lindsay Clancy, who was a labor and delivery nurse, had her husband go out and pick up some food, and when he was gone, prosecutors say she strangled their three children.

[00:24:05] Cora was five, Dawson was three, Kaylin was eight months old.

Jay Aundrea: [00:24:12] Jesus

Bruce Anthony: [00:24:13] She then tried to take her own life. She jumped out of a window trying to commit suicide Broke her spine and is now paralyzed from the waist down. Three years later, we finally get a trial, and this month the trial ended without an answer. The jury was deadlocked 11 to one, leaning towards not guilty, so the judge declared a mistrial.

The Lindsay Clancy case and a question that has no easy answer: 🧠🚨💔

Bruce Anthony: [00:24:40] And now we’re left with a question this entire case has been wrestling with. Was this a mother who made a decision to unalive her children, or was this a mother in a grip of a severe mental illness that nobody around her recognized until it was too late? And this conversation is going to get extremely uncomfortable for some because you can look at what happened and feel like both things can’t possibly be true at the same time. But that’s exactly why this case is worth talking about. Not loudly, not emotionally, but honestly. Because sometimes the hardest questions are not about what happened, they’re about whether we can understand why it happened without excusing it. So like I said, she unalived her three children, tried to commit suicide, is now paralyzed from the waist down.

[00:25:38] They had 80 witnesses live stream the trial. Jury was deadlocked. One holdout. They were gonna go not guilty, but the one holdout was like, “Nah.” They’re still pending on if they’re gonna retry. Uh, but both Clancy and her ex-husband have filed malpractice lawsuits. Now, there’s an important detail that I left out.

[00:26:01] But what’s the first question that comes to your mind? I’m curious to see if it’s the first question that came to my mind when somebody was talking to me about this earlier

Jay Aundrea: [00:26:11] The first question

Bruce Anthony: [00:26:13] Yeah. What’s the first question that comes to your mind about this case?

Jay Aundrea: [00:26:20] I have so many questions. How

[00:26:27] How how are they deadlocked?

Bruce Anthony: [00:26:31] So The

The random car radio chat that pulled Bruce into the Clancy case: 🚗📻🤔

Bruce Anthony: [00:26:34] reason why we’re talking about this, because this was not on the run to do today, was because I was having a conversation with a gentleman. I’m gonna be gender specific for this conversation because I think that’s important for the later conversation we’re gonna have about this.

Jay Aundrea: [00:26:48] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:26:49] And this gentleman said, “Have you heard about this case?” And I was like, “No, I haven’t.” He’s like, “It’s all over the news and blah, blah, blah.” I was like, “Hey, your algorithm and my algorithm are completely different. So what’ll pop up on yours is not gonna pop up on mine.” “Yeah, it was a woman strangled her kids and, and, and people, people, women are doing out GoFundMes and stuff for like protecting her and stuff like that.

[00:27:10] Isn’t that crazy?” And I was like, “Hmm, seems like there’s more to the story.” Like, why would people do that for obviously somebody who hurt their children? Because supposedly there’s one thing that we stand on in this country, and it’s don’t mess with the kids, unless the perpetrators are white males with money.

[00:27:29] But don’t, don’t mess with kids. So I said, “Something doesn’t make sense to me. Why would they be trying to do a GoFundMe and why would they defend her and why was this jury deadlocked leaning towards not guilty?” I was like, “It’s… I, I feel like you’re leaving out something in the story.” “Nope, I’m not leaving out anything.”

[00:27:47] I said, “You are.” And at first I was just like, oh, a mom killing her kids. This is a story that we hear almost every year. There’s nothing… It’s a sad story, but I’m almost numb to it because it happens so often. But I am curious, ‘cause it was a bug up my ass why they were doing GoFundMes to help her out and deadlock.

[00:28:11] Guess what I found?

Jay Aundrea: [00:28:13] What’s

Postpartum psychosis, not depression, is the detail people miss: 🧠💊🚨

Bruce Anthony: [00:28:14] Key thing, postpartum,

Jay Aundrea: [00:28:16] Mm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:28:17] depression, psychosis. I’ll get into the difference of it later. But I said, “Oh, okay,” so not condoning it, but I knew there had to be an explanation of why somebody would do that to her kids and other people are defending her. Not defending her actions, defending her.

[00:28:40] Like, and the person was like, “I don’t care. Kill the kids.” And I was like, “I hear that. I hear that. I, I’m with you on that. However, it seems like there’s more to the story.” “Not for me.” I was like, “It didn’t seem like you did any research ‘cause you couldn’t tell me anything about what was going on.” “Well, I heard about it when I was driving in today and they was talking about it on the radio.

[00:29:01] And you know, some people, some guys are confronting their women about it ‘cause women are out here defending her, and some guys are confronting their women about it, asking them, ‘Hey, do you defend her?’ And if they do, they’re breaking up with them.” I said, “Oh, okay, well that’s, hmm, a really narrow form of thinking because it’s not taken into context what the woman is going through.”

[00:29:20] I was like, “Did you, do you understand what postpartum depression is?” “Yeah, I ki- yeah, I know what it is.” “Do you? I don’t think you do.” And it’s… A- and I found when I was talking to him It was postpartum depression. When I dig, dug deeper and did the research before coming on the show, no, it was postpartum psychosis.

[00:29:41] I’m gonna get into the difference of it later. But that was the original thing. Like, wait a minute, how did it get found not guilty and why were there— or Costa not guilty, and why were there people defending her? Now, after giving you that information, do some of your questions change? Do they stay the same?

[00:29:57] What is your thought process in this entire thing?

Jay Aundrea: [00:30:00] No actually I’m gonna disagree with what you said earlier. You were saying that both things could not be true, but the f- but the fact of the matter is, is that both things are true, that

Bruce Anthony: [00:30:16] No, I said people think two things can’t be true at the same time. I didn’t

Jay Aundrea: [00:30:21] Oh, got you. Yeah. Well, they, well, both things are true. One, that she, uh, allegedly was suffering from postpartum psychosis, and two, that she’s allegedly a murderer. Like, both of those things…

Bruce Anthony: [00:30:36] allegedly. She admits to it. She did it. Yeah,

Jay Aundrea: [00:30:38] then she’s also a murderer. So, you know, we don’t talk enough about postpartum mental health in this country, especial- or I don’t know.

[00:30:55] I, I guess I can’t comment on other countries, but like, I don’t think we talk about postpartum mental health enough and how really serious it can be, not just to the children, but also to the mother and, and the surrounding community, you know, family and friends and things. But I will say more often than not, I, I don’t have the exact statistic, but more often than not, women going through postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis do not commit infanticide.

[00:31:38] I know this is true for an adult, that it takes about three to four minutes to strangle someone to death. I don’t know if that’s the same, for children, but it’s not quick And there were three children.

Bruce Anthony: [00:32:00] Mm-hmm.

Jay Aundrea: [00:32:02] And so in my mind, there was time To stop. Like, and there was also time to think, right? Because, because you sent your husband away intentionally So again, my same question is why were they deadlocked?

[00:32:26] I can have— I can hold sympathy and empathy for her going through postpartum psychosis and also hold her accountable and responsible for her own actions. Because if you knew you were at that point or in that state The choice is to not put yourself in a position where you’re alone with your children

She sought help again and again and got overmedicated instead: 💊🏥😞

Bruce Anthony: [00:32:54] We’ll get into that later. But if you notice, one of the key facts that I brought up is that both her and her ex-husband are filing malpractice lawsuits. And the reason why they’re filing malpractice lawsuits is because she sought help. Uh, the exact part, Defense Reddington, she sought help repeatedly.

[00:33:15] Psychiatrists, therapists, outpatient program, five in- inpatient days at McLean Hospital, was prescribed multiple medications, and was overmedicated rather than properly treated. The forensic psychologist testifies she was in postpartum psychosis and reportedly hearing a male voice ord- ordering her to kill the children and herself.

[00:33:38] Police testimony about her phone and computer searches, which were psychosis, hallucinations, methods of self-harm, were used to show a mind coming apart, not a plan. The DA’s argument was she was coherent enough to plan, so something that you said. Uh, the state signature claim is that she sent Patrick out for food to buy herself time, and then their forensic psychiatrist testified it would be very, very unusual for someone with psychosis to hear a commanding voice only once.

[00:34:11] So the jury was 11 to one. It was, nine women and three men, I believe. So the lone holdout was a man. But this was some person who sought help. So as I started digging deeper, and remember, as I’m talking to this person earlier today, and we’re talking, I’m focused on postpartum depression.

Jay Aundrea: [00:34:40] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:34:41] And,

Where was the husband while everything was quietly falling apart: 🤔🏠💔

Bruce Anthony: [00:34:42] and then it got to the point I was like, “Yo, wait a minute.

[00:34:44] Where’s the husband in all this?” Because if I know that my wife, the mother of my kids, is battling this, and I know specifically what she’s been battling because of all the doctors and therapists and inpatient help that she’s gotten I would never leave her alone with the kids. Fact of the matter is, I might not have the kids in the house until she’s cleared of everything that she’s got going on.

[00:35:20] I’m not putting any blame on the husband. I’m just saying there’s a bigger picture here that I think a lot of people don’t look at because the headline is so horrific

Jay Aundrea: [00:35:33] Yeah. I think the, th- the defensive claim of overmedication, I mean, that’s a matter of opinion, right? Like, they got an expert to say that she was over-medicated. You can easily find an expert to say that she was correctly medicated, and you can find one to say she was under-medicated. So that’s not, that’s neither here nor there.

[00:36:00] I, I feel like it makes sense that she went and sought help. She is, uh, you said she was a labor and delivery nurse? Yeah. So I, it makes sense to me that being in the healthcare field that she did seek help, and honestly, I— it’s a really, really hard thing to seek help for because, you know, there’s so much pressure on mothers to be, like, perfect, right?

[00:36:35] And when you’re going through a mental health crisis, you’re, you’re not your best self. So it could, there could be a lot of shame and guilt around it. So I really actually commend her for going to seek help as aggressively as she did. nevertheless, while I hold space for that, nevertheless, there was a plan. She had made a decision that she was going to listen to this voice that she said she heard, send her husband away, murder her children, and try to murder herself. I don’t even know if I can say the M word. Unalive. Sorry.

Bruce Anthony: [00:37:21] Yeah. Well, you already said it. I’m

[00:37:23] not gonna bleep it, out. Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s, it’s apropos for discussion. Let’s not minimize it.

Jay Aundrea: [00:37:30] Right.

Bruce Anthony: [00:37:31] what it was

Jay Aundrea: [00:37:32] Right. And I wonder, would we even be having this conversation had she succeeded? And that’s a good and a bad thing, right? One, it’s, it’s not people— I don’t wanna say taking advantage of the diagnosis as in terms of using it as a defense, but I also think it would’ve been a bad thing that we’ve not talked about it because it is a very debilitating mental health condition that can result in harm to oneself or harm to one’s child.

[00:38:10] So like

[00:38:14] I, I thi- it’s a tough, tough situation. I, in my personal opinion, I would’ve probably been that dissenting vote

Bruce Anthony: [00:38:24] Hmm. I, I don’t know what I would’ve done. I would’ve asked, “Can we find her guilty but send her to a hospital?” Because it’s clear that she needs help. Uh, uh, uh, but before we even get into that, ‘cause, uh, uh, I have to be careful here ‘cause it kinda seems like I’m on d- defending her

[00:38:47] and minimizing what she did.

[00:38:49] I’m not. If it’s coming off as that, ladies and gentlemen, that’s not my point. My point is that we need to focus in on the mental health aspect of women after they give— after and before they give birth. And the reason why I was real specific with bringing up the gender of the person that I was talking to was because they were so dismissive of

Jay Aundrea: [00:39:19] Yeah.

Bruce Anthony: [00:39:20] depression.

Jay Aundrea: Yes

Bruce Anthony: [00:39:21] And I was like, how can you be dismissive of anything that you’ve never gone through? I don’t

[00:39:28] care. Never will. And their issue was really black and white. I don’t care, end result. And I was like, I get that. Like Bruce and Bruce love the kids. Bruce and Bruce don’t want nothing bad to ever happen to kids.

[00:39:41] They are the most innocent souls before, you know, they hit the teenage years, and then that’s when they, you know, y-you can do whatever you want with them after that point. I don’t really care. But the little, the little babies, the little babies, no, we gotta cherish them and let

Jay Aundrea: the

Bruce Anthony: [00:39:55] their childhood.

Jay Aundrea: [00:39:56] still children, ladies and gentlemen.

Bruce Anthony: [00:39:58] Say what?

Jay Aundrea: [00:39:59] Teenagers are still children, ladies

[00:40:00] and gentlemen. you can’t just, you can’t just throw them away ‘cause they got attitudes

Bruce Anthony: [00:40:04] them… And, uh, you could throw them the hell away, and I’m including my teenage self, uh,

Jay Aundrea: [00:40:08] and they… Oh, you wanna talk about a teenager with an attitude?

Bruce Anthony: [00:40:12] You know what? We not talking about me less, uh, yeah, I

Jay Aundrea: [00:40:15] Yeah, me. No, me.

Bruce Anthony: [00:40:17] it’s not…

Jay Aundrea: [00:40:18] Yeah

Bruce Anthony: [00:40:20] so I don’t want to, to, to… I’m not minimizing that,

[00:40:24] but the dismissive nature that I’ve seen this conversation with men

Jay Aundrea: [00:40:31] Yeah.

Bruce Anthony: [00:40:32] this topic has been so disheartening ‘cause I’m like, oh, you don’t have no space for women at all.

[00:40:40] None. And because let me… Uh, this is what gets missed.

Postpartum psychosis is more common than SIDS and still ignored: 🚨🧠📉

Bruce Anthony: [00:40:44] Postpartum psychosis affects an estimated one to two people, women, for every 1,000 births. So you say, “Well, that’s not that big of a deal.” Hold on. For scale, that is more common than SIDS,

Jay Aundrea: [00:40:58] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:40:59] okay? Postpartum depression, a different and far more common condition, affects roughly 10% mothers.

Jay Aundrea: [00:41:08] Yeah

Bruce Anthony: [00:41:09] People confuse the two constantly, and I’m gonna say I didn’t confuse the two constantly ‘cause this is the first time I’ve heard about postpartum psychosis. I’ve heard depression before, not psychosis. It’s not a stand, uh, standalone diagnosis in the DSM, which experts say is a direct cause of missed cases. If the book doctors use does not name it, clinicians may not even recognize it. Advocates have been pushing for it to be listed separately. It is highly treatable when caught. Lithium eases symptoms for something like 98% of the patients in a cited research, and electric shock therapy, but, you know, that’s not widely available and not, you know…

Jay Aundrea: [00:41:52] And TBH, should we do some more research on electroshock therapy, like more current research? I don’t know when the latest thing on electroshock was published, but it feels like a early 1900s type of thing. Late 1800s. It don’t feel

Bruce Anthony: [00:42:13] but the, uh… This isn’t a new case, and so another

[00:42:17] argument that the person that I was talking to that introduced me to this topic was saying it was a slippery slope. You know, if one person gets away with it and found not guilty. They didn’t say slippery slope. They were describing it, and I said, “What you’re describing is a slippery slope.”

[00:42:29] Okay. If one person gets away with it, then other people try to do it. And this has already happened two decades ago with Andrea Yates. Uh, she drowned her five children in Texas during a postpartum psychosis and was eventually found not guilty by reason of insanities. Experts say awareness has grown since then, but still very much is needed, and that’s the reason why I wanted to have this conversation, because I feel like people don’t know what the awareness is.

[00:42:55] Postpartum depression is a mood disorder, right? Postpartum psychosis is a completely different animal and is, is genuinely a psychotic emergency, right? So it, it, it leads to hearing voices, paranoia, confusion, delusions, hallu- hallucinations, rapid swings between mania and depression. It sounds freaking horrible.

[00:43:19] It sounds like the bipolar of w- birth of women having birth. That’s what it sounds like. It’s, uh… It sound like something I don’t never wanna have

Jay Aundrea: [00:43:34] And what I find interesting, I’m looking at it now, there’s a article in Cleveland Clinic on, uh, postpartum psychosis, is the symptoms typically appear within 48 to 72 hours up to two weeks after delivery, and her baby was eight months old.

Bruce Anthony: [00:43:52] Mm-hmm. Well, she says she, they said she was try- she’d been trying to get help

Jay Aundrea: [00:43:58] I, uh, it, what it… So it is a, postpartum psychosis is a mental health emergency.

[00:44:08] Like it, it, it’s like you said, that, that depression is a more, uh, it’s a mood disorder, it’s more prolonged. Psychosis, the postpartum psychosis to me feels more like this, this is happening. Like it, like something clicks and it, this is, this

[00:44:26] is happening, Okay, So like, and I don’t know that that’s the case because again, I haven’t, I, I’m doing very rudimentary research. I’m also not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or any kind of mental health researcher, so you can take all of that with a grain of salt.

Bruce Anthony: [00:44:44] but this is my entire point of having this conversation. We’re talking about it. You’re openly admitting, “I’m not that well-versed in this.” But there are other people coming to absolute conclusions and results and answers without having all of the information. And you’re not doing that. You’re saying, “I probably would’ve leaned towards that guilty, but this is a very complicated situation.”

Jay Aundrea: [00:45:13] complicated situation. I think I probably might have led— leaned more towards not guilty if it was like a spur of the moment type of thing. Like, like, a, a, a, you know, the typical idea you get is like the shaken baby, like, right? Like the baby’s crying, you’re— you fall off the edge because you’ve already been teetering and like now, like this is the last straw, shake the baby, like in, in a psych— in a, in a, in a, in a state of psychosis that happens, like I would say probably not guilty by reason of insanity.

[00:45:54] But the facts of this particular case,

Bruce Anthony: [00:45:58] The planning

Jay Aundrea: [00:45:59] the planning of it, the way that she chose to analyze three children,

Bruce Anthony: [00:46:07] Mm-hmm.

Jay Aundrea: [00:46:10] It could have been like a l- like I feel like you just could have found a, a less torturous way to do it. Where, where you think about Andrea Yates with the drowning and then in this case s- strangulation, like these are not easy ways to go.

[00:46:34] Uh, uh, you know what I’m

Bruce Anthony: [00:46:35] you’re having a mental health crisis…

Jay Aundrea: [00:46:37] quick

Bruce Anthony: [00:46:38] Right. But when you’re having a mental health crisis, you’re not clear-minded

Jay Aundrea: [00:46:43] But she’s got a, uh, she’s gotta wrangle a three and a five-year-old

Bruce Anthony: [00:46:48] Yeah. Look, uh

Jay Aundrea: [00:46:51] Like this, th- it just feels like the, uh, in that time And again, I don’t know. I’ve never had any kind of event leading to psychosis or, uh, uh, anything like that, and I haven’t had children. But it just feels like in the s- in that span of time, even before sending her husband out to eat, if she had just said, “I’m hearing something that is, that is making me want to do this thing.

Bruce Anthony: [00:47:32] Mm-hmm.

Jay Aundrea: [00:47:34] Do not leave me alone with our children.” Like, that was also a choice.

Bruce Anthony: [00:47:38] Yeah

Jay Aundrea: [00:47:39] I feel like too many choices, specific choices were made that I don’t see not guilty. But again, I didn’t hear all the evidence. I wasn’t there for all the testimony, the 80 witnesses and, and things like that. So I mean, I really don’t know.

[00:48:00] But I would say, I would say that any instance where crime is committed where a person’s mental health is in question is always gonna be complicated and nuanced

Bruce Anthony: [00:48:13] Yeah.

Why so many women defend her and Bruce’s cop shooting parallel: 🖤🙅💥

Bruce Anthony: [00:48:14] So the reason why as I dug deeper, this is a hypothesis, ladies and gentlemen. This is a hypothesis, okay? That the reason as I dug into this, it, it, I, I kinda came to this conclusion or this idea, this hypothesis of why there were so many women defending her or showing support for her. It’s not to excuse what she did.

Jay Aundrea: [00:48:43] Right

Bruce Anthony: [00:48:44] It’s not. We as Black people know that sometimes Black criminals are killed by cops.

Jay Aundrea: [00:48:54] Yes

Bruce Anthony: [00:48:55] We are not condoning whatever crime that they did. But if that Black person was unarmed, there was a way to arrest them that didn’t have to end in the loss of their life.

Jay Aundrea: [00:49:08] Yes

Bruce Anthony: [00:49:09] Okay we’re going to defend him

Jay Aundrea: [00:49:14] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:49:15] because there’s a parallel.

[00:49:17] That can happen to us. That’s what I believe a lot of these women that are supporting her are doing. They’re not saying what she did was explainable or understandable in any way. Neither am I.

[00:49:33] What I’m saying is, and what I think they are, is that could happen to any one of us because there’s something that’s going on that y’all are

Jay Aundrea: [00:49:42] Yeah.

Bruce Anthony: [00:49:43] serious

Jay Aundrea: [00:49:44] Yeah, I think it’s less about being in support of Lindsay specifically and more about this is an example of like, we need more research and more awareness and to be talking about postpartum mental health a lot more than we’re doing. Because 10% of childbearing people suffering from postpartum depression is not a small number.

It’s

Bruce Anthony: [00:50:19] And you

[00:50:20] literally, I literally just made that point. You just repeating the point I just made

Jay Aundrea: [00:50:25] Oh, did you finish making it? Because I, it sound like

Bruce Anthony: [00:50:29] Yeah, I had, uh, oh, okay. Okay, I lost you ‘cause you leaned in and, and it glossed over. So you ain’t hear me come, come to the… You was thinking about what you was gonna say, and you wasn’t paying attention to, I literally just said that, that they are not in support of what she did, but in support of bringing attention to the things that women are going through.

[00:50:49] That’s literally what I said.

Jay Aundrea: [00:50:50] Oh yeah, that’s exactly— I agree with that wholeheartedly. I feel like I said it better.

Bruce Anthony: [00:50:55] You did say it better

Jay Aundrea: [00:50:57] Okay, ‘cause maybe that was it. Maybe that’s where I got lost.

Bruce Anthony: [00:51:03] You

Jay Aundrea: [00:51:05] but yeah,

[00:51:06] But yeah, I’ve, I, I, I am ho- uh, you know, holding space for empathy but also accountability

​

Bruce Anthony: [00:51:18] So Jay, there’s actually a name for couples who are committed to each other

Jay Aundrea: [00:51:30] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:51:31] but don’t want to live together. It’s called living apart together

Jay Aundrea: [00:51:36] That is, sounds like heaven. And I f- and I feel like they stole this from Cole, from Martin.

Bruce Anthony: [00:51:45] When Martin and Gina split, you see, it was like, y’all are, are together but apart. Yes, they living apart together, and, and the important word here is deliberately. These aren’t couples who are s- uh, stuck living in different cities because of a job. They’re not celebrated, I mean, separated. They’re not on the verge of a breakup.

[00:52:08] They are choosing to have separate homes while still being in a committed relationship, and that’s an important distinction because a long-distance relationship usually has a goal of eventually closing that distance. A separation usually has a goal of figuring out whether you’re gonna stay together. Living apart together,

Living apart together, the separate homes are the relationship: 🏠💕🔑

[SEGMENT 3 START]

Bruce Anthony: [00:52:27] there is no gap to close. There is no breakup coming. The separate homes are the relationship, and that’s where I think this gets really interesting because the way this is being talked about right now isn’t really as a compromise, it’s being presented as an upgrade. The idea is that maybe you could love somebody, be committed to them, build a life with them without having to share a bathroom, without arguing about whose turn it is to clean the kitchen, without somebody asking why you still watching TV at 2:00 in the morning.

Jay Aundrea: [00:52:59] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:53:00] The pitch is independence. You keep your own space, you keep your own routines, you keep some of that mystery and desire that can disappear when you’ve been living together for 10 years, and maybe for some people, that’s actually healthier. But here’s a question I want to get into. Are separate homes actually protecting the relationship, or are they just finding a more socially acceptable way to avoid the parts of the relationship that require a compromise?

[00:53:31] Because they’re… Those are two very, very different things

Jay Aundrea: [00:53:36] Why

Jay asks the real question, why is any of this even a problem: 🤷🏠💯

Jay Aundrea: [00:53:37] it, I, you lost me on like what the problem is. Because here’s the thing, if you can bypass a lot of the major problems that creep up in a relationship due to just being in proximity with another human being all the time, right? Especially if y’all work from home. That’s— You’re, you’re together all the time.

[00:54:04] If you could bypass a lot of those problems and compromises, which usually means sacrifices for one person, by living independently, what’s the problem? Like, it, I— What’s the problem? I could also bypass a lot of my debt issues by being rich. Like, it’s— Like,

Bruce Anthony: [00:54:29] I don’t think being rich is a choice. I

Jay Aundrea: [00:54:32] But I’m saying like, but you know what I’m saying?

[00:54:35] Like, it’s like, okay, uh, I would rather, you know, cry in a Benz than a Toyota Tercel. I’m just saying. Like, I don’t understand why avoiding those uncomfortable, and again, compromises, I say that very loosely ‘cause it’s usually somebody sacrificing. Why not just… Look, they used to have the separate beds. It used to be you had separate bedrooms.

[00:55:10] Now

[00:55:14] you telling me I can have my own full-owned house, and we can see each other when we see each other, and it works for us? What’s the problem?

Bruce Anthony: [00:55:19] I didn’t say there was a problem. I just thought this was really interesting.

The numbers, millions live apart and it jumped over 40 percent: 📈🏠😮

Bruce Anthony: [00:55:23] So as of 2022, about 3.89 million Americans were living apart from their spouses, their spouses. Roughly 2.9% of, of married Americans. So not a small portion of married Americans. And you may say, “Oh, that’s only 2%. Eh, it’s millions of people.”

[00:55:41] Okay. That figure is spouses only and does not count unmarried committed couples, so that number could actually be higher. Between 2000 and 2022, so 22 years, the share of married couples who lived apart grew by more than 40%.

Jay Aundrea: [00:56:00] Mm-hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:56:01] Here’s the caveat. This is a trend driven mainly by older women. So here’s the plot twist.

[00:56:08] Here’s the mind you, right? Here’s the mind you. What this article was basically saying, these studies are basically saying is that older women are like, “Look, I need to get in a different house.” And it tends to be because older women, because they spent a whole existence being mom and caregiver, and they don’t wanna do that no more.

But

Jay Aundrea: [00:56:35] Listen,

Bruce Anthony: [00:56:36] you

Jay Aundrea: [00:56:37] as a middle-aged woman, I could tell you, I think it’s not, I need my own house, it’s I already have a house and I’m not giving it up. And I d- and it’s already decorated the way I want. It already got all my stuff in it. I— The closet’s full, honey. I can’t make room for nobody else. You might as well stay where you are instead of me packing up my stuff and downsizing my things to fit you into my house, ‘cause I don’t wanna give up my house.

[00:57:09] I love my house. It’s mine. Like, why wouldn’t we just maintain separate residences? It’s brilliant

Peace versus pockets, split the bills or protect your own space: 💰🏠😌

Bruce Anthony: [00:57:18] It is, uh, also, I know for me personally, I’ve been living on my own now for about 15 years, right? In the thir- 13, 14, 15 years. And, and I have openly admitted on this show, in public to anybody who will listen to me, that I would really like to split these damn bills because it’s expensive. If I lived in Podunk, America, where my rent was $800 a month, cool.

[00:57:48] You know, I ain’t got a problem with that. But my rent ain’t $800 a month. Ain’t nowhere close to $800 a month. So I— it’s fascinating to me that people would choose this ‘cause you gonna save on money, but that’s my thing. Other people are like, “What about my peace?” And if you remember, you remember me and my ex-wife,

Jay Aundrea: Hmm.

Bruce Anthony: [00:58:13] our first place was a one-bedroom, one, one-bath apartment.

[00:58:17] The next place we got was a two-bedroom, two-bath apartment ‘cause we had lived in that one-bedroom, one-bath apartment for, like, a couple of years. And she was fed up with sharing a bathroom. I was definitely fed up with sharing a bathroom. And I was like, “Look, I need more space to get away with you. I want you…” Like Patrice O’Neal said, “I want you here, but not here.

Jay Aundrea: He,

Bruce Anthony: [00:58:44] I need you to be

Jay Aundrea: [00:58:45] around, Yeah.

Bruce Anthony: [00:58:46] right here.”

Jay Aundrea: [00:58:47] Yeah. I, I’m, I’m not, I’m the exact opposite. I prioritize my peace over my pockets. I’ll pay the bill. I’ll pay the bill. I’ll pay it if it means that I get to live in peace. And this, this idea of still maintaining… Because I, I think that happens too in relationships a lot, is that you start to become dependent and you do start to lose your identity in a, in a lot of ways.

[00:59:17] You

Losing yourself in a couple and whether the unit is patriarchy: 🖤🤔💥

Jay Aundrea: [00:59:18] stop becoming, you stop being yourself and you’re now a part of this unit, which a lot of people are like, “Well, that’s the whole point.” But, but also, who’s, who says? Like,

that,

Bruce Anthony: [00:59:32] a minute, what?

Jay Aundrea: [00:59:33] who said? Like, that idea of the, uh, the couple now you’re a unit, I feel like is really steeped in patriarchy because, because it’s not really right.

[00:59:48] You’re not really a unit ‘cause the woman didn’t have as much power as the man,

Bruce Anthony: [00:59:52] I think nowadays, uh, only, the only relationships I enter in now are partnerships. We are equal partners because I tend to date, uh, independent, uh, successful. Successful means you about something. It doesn’t necessarily mean monetary. It means you about something, you trying to do something. Now, I’m attracted to that.

[01:00:13] If you ain’t, if you just like, “I had, had the same job for about 10 years,” like you ain’t trying to do nothing else

Jay Aundrea: [01:00:19] nothing else? You don’t have no side hustle or

Bruce Anthony: [01:00:22] They even got no goals, no aspirations. Like I can’t deal with somebody like that. So a unit for me, because I’m looking for a partnership, is a person that improves my weaknesses as I improve their weaknesses.

[01:00:38] We improve each other. And I’ve had that. I’ve had women that I’ve dated where the rare times where I let down my guard and say, “Hey, I’m feeling like I can’t accomplish something.”

[01:00:54] And they be like, “What are you talking about? Yes, you can. You’re one of the most determined, strongest people that I know. I don’t know anything that you haven’t been able to accomplish.

[01:01:03] You can do this too.” Sometimes it just be that little thing. Like the strength of a man sometimes is that woman putting that battery in the back and then vice versa. So I think that’s what they mean by unit, and that’s what I mean by bettering each other

Jay Aundrea: [01:01:19] And in my opinion, that puts way too much pressure on both people.

Bruce Anthony: [01:01:26] Yeah, yeah

Jay Aundrea: [01:01:27] feel like, I feel like the purpose of being in a relationship is not to improve the other person. Or like, I don’t feel like that’s a facet. I think you can be with somebody who makes you want to be better, makes you want to do different things, makes you want to be better, but to…

[01:01:47] I, I wouldn’t make that other person responsible

Bruce Anthony: [01:01:51] Maybe I wasn’t being clear. I, I don’t mean responsible. I mean this just by being together because you’ve chosen this person, they put a battery in your back. You want to be better. That’s the reason why I date women who are successful. I’m like, “Mm, you more successful than I am.” It’s not a competition thing.

[01:02:08] It’s kind of like a, “Hey, Bruce, let’s get up on it here.”

Jay Aundrea: [01:02:12] So it is a competition

Bruce Anthony: [01:02:13] It’s not, it’s not a competition to surpass them. It’s a competition to just, just be like— Because I’ve dated women who make far more money than me. So it’s, it’s like, “Oh, I need to make sure that I’m not siphoning off of them. So let me go out here and get some more bread.”

[01:02:30] “Hey, do you wanna go on a vacation?” “Yeah, I’ll pay.” “No, I’ll cover my half because I can do these things together with you. I’ve been working hard because I see you out here doing this thing. It’s motivating me

Jay Aundrea: [01:02:43] Yeah. I just don’t need to see you every day

Bruce Anthony: [01:02:46] Well another,

Resentment, thermostat wars and Bruce’s studio in the hood plan: 😤🏠🔥

Bruce Anthony: [01:02:48] another reason why couples are doing this is avoiding resentment. So the theory is, is that forced compromise on towels, dishes, thermostat wars, all that type of stuff can lead to a slow resentment that, that bleeds and then, then, you know,

Jay Aundrea: Yeah.

Bruce Anthony: [01:03:04] the bond that y’all had

Jay Aundrea: [01:03:06] It could be a little thing that honestly, in the grand scheme of things, is not a big deal, but boy, the accumulation of this little thing, you, you, you always drop your clothes next to the hamper.

Bruce Anthony: [01:03:21] Mm-hmm.

Jay Aundrea: [01:03:22] The acc- you will never empty the dishwasher. Like it’s the accumulation of these little things that lead to that resentment.

[01:03:29] And so if you can get around it, get around it

Bruce Anthony: [01:03:33] Look, I’m all for people doing whatever makes them happy. If this how you wanna live your life, cool. If I was in a relationship and a woman was like, “I just wanna, I wanna be with you, but I wanna keep things separate,” I’d be like, “All right. Well, I’m gonna tell you right now, since I, I don’t need to impress nobody, I’m gonna get me a little studio in the hood.

[01:03:54] You are more than welcome to come and spend the night when you want to, but I’m gonna save money somehow, some way So I’m getting me a little studio by the hood, so when you come over, there’s gonna be bars on the windows and gunshots outside. But I’m gonna make sure that you got your space.” That’s, that’s my compromise.

[01:04:12] But just know that, uh, I’m gonna be living by Macaroni Tonié in them

Jay Aundrea: [01:04:17] Yeah, but no, this sounds, uh, amazing to me,

[01:04:22] honestly. Uh, keep, keep your separate residence

Bruce Anthony: [01:04:27] whatever right for you. That’s

Jay Aundrea: [01:04:29] Right. If it works for you, don’t, don’t listen to nobody.

Bruce Anthony: [01:04:32] Yeah.

Jay Aundrea: [01:04:33] to us. If it works for you,

Bruce Anthony: [01:04:35] No, listen to us. I’m saying do— we’re both saying do what makes you happy. That, yes,

Jay Aundrea: You don’t

Bruce Anthony: [01:04:40] to us.

Jay Aundrea: [01:04:41] No, don’t even listen to us. Don’t listen to nobody.

Bruce Anthony: [01:04:46] Jay, what do you wanna tell these people before we get out of here?

Jay Aundrea: [01:04:50] Oh, Man. I, I always kinda lean on the taking care of yourself, but I wanna actually broaden that to check on the people around you, right? Everybody’s dealing with their own things. It could be mental health crises, you know, after giving birth. It could be changing a job. It could be their partner wants to live independently, uh, right?

[01:05:24] It could be any of those things. Everybody has got their own struggles and things, and it’s always important to check in on the people within your community. Don’t just lean on other people. Give them an opportunity to lean on you too

Bruce Anthony: [01:05:40] I love that. You’re absolutely right. For me,

Closing thoughts, be correct not just right in a headline world: 🧠💯🔥

Bruce Anthony: [01:05:44] you know, talking about these stories today, there’s one thing that keeps coming back to me. You’ve got to stop looking at everything like it’s black and white. Because we live in a headline society now. People see a headline, they see a title of a video, maybe they watch a 30-second clip, and they’ve decided the entire story.

[01:06:04] They know who is right, who is wrong, who is good, who is evil, and they haven’t even read the article. They haven’t watched the full video. They haven’t looked at all the evidence. They just found something that confirmed what they already wanted to believe And that’s not analysis, that’s confirmation. And I think we’ve become this popcorn microwave analyst of everything society.

[01:06:31] Give me the headline, give me the clip, give me the 30 seconds, I’m ready to tell you what the problem is. And I think the bigger problem is that we’re not really interested in being correct anymore. We’re interested in being right. I talk about it all the time. I don’t wanna be right. I wanna be correct.

[01:06:50] And those two are not the same thing. You can find information to support almost anything that you believe. That doesn’t mean your conclusion is correct. It just means you found evidence that agrees with you. And that’s why I think discernment has become such an important skill. Look at Lindsey Clancy case.

[01:07:09] My friend heard a couple people talking about it and immediately said, “It doesn’t matter. She should be fried under the jail.” And listen, I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I don’t have an emotional reaction to somebody harming kids. Y’all know I love the kids. I have a strong emotional reaction to harming kids.

[01:07:29] But I also wanna know all the facts before I decide what my final answer is going to be. Because I can believe something happened and still admit that I don’t know everything about why it happened. I can have an opinion and still leave room for new information. And honestly, I think that’s where we’re all going wrong.

[01:07:48] We think changing your mind means that you’re weak. It doesn’t. Sometimes changing your mind means you’ve learned something. So maybe we need to start looking at our first answer as more of a hypothesis and not a verdict. Here’s what I think. Now, let me see if the evidence actually supports what I think, and if it doesn’t, change it.

[01:08:12] That’s not losing, that’s thinking. Because life is complicated. People are complicated. Relationships and mental health is complicated. And even the things that seem obvious can look very different when you finally have the full picture. So before you share that headline, before you jump into the comments, before you decide you know exactly who the villain is and who exactly the victim is, take a minute.

[01:08:42] Read the whole thing. Watch the whole thing. Look at the evidence that makes you uncomfortable, especially that evidence. Because if you only examine the information that makes you feel good about what you already believe, you’re not searching for the truth You’re protecting your position. And there’s a difference between being first, being right, and being correct.

[01:09:08] Like I always say, I’d rather be correct, even if it takes a little longer. But here’s the uncomfortable part people don’t want to talk about. You might be wrong, and that’s okay. Actually, it has to be okay. Because if you’re so committed to being right that you can’t entertain the possibility that you’re wrong, you’re not really thinking, you’re defending, and that’s a completely different thing.

[01:09:36] You don’t need to have the absolute answer five minutes after seeing the headline. We don’t need to pick a side before we understand the story. We don’t need to turn every complicated issue into good guy, bad guy. Sometimes the most intellectually honest thing that you could say is, “I don’t know yet.” And then keep looking.

[01:09:58] Examine the evidence. You listen to the other side. You challenge your own assumptions. And when new information comes in, you’re willing to consider it. not weakness. That’s discernment. More importantly, that’s maturity. And honestly, that’s something I think we could all use a little more of because being first doesn’t make you right.

[01:10:21] Being loud doesn’t make you right. Having evidence that supports your position doesn’t automatically make you correct. Sometimes being correct means having the courage to admit the answer you started with wasn’t the answer that you’re gonna end with. And I’d rather take the time to get it right than rush to be right. Ladies and gentlemen, I wanna thank you for listening. I wanna thank you for watching. And until next time, as always, I’ll holla

[01:10:53] Woo. That was a hell of a show. Thank you for rocking with us here on Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Now, before you go, don’t forget to follow, subscribe, like, comment, and share our podcast. Wherever you’re listening or watching it to it, pass it along to your friends. If you enjoy it, that means the people that you rock, we’ll enjoy it also.

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[01:12:17] Audi 5,000 Peace.